“Through all of the pain and suffering in the world, people still believe that love will survive and make it to the other side,” reflects Walter Afanasieff. This sentiment captures the essence of our exclusive interview with the acclaimed producer, composer, musician and one of ISINA’s most appreciated mentors. Incredibly modest and approachable, Afanasieff, a two-time Grammy winner, has created a legacy of hits that have become the soundtrack to so many lives.
This year, Walter’s collaboration with Barbra Streisand, Hans Zimmer, Kara Talve, and Charlie Midnight on the song “Love Will Survive” from the miniseries The Tattooist of Auschwitz has garnered an Emmy nomination in the category “Outstanding Original Music and Lyrics.”
In this conversation, Walter Afanasieff delves into the emotional resonance of the song, the creative process of transforming musical fragments into a cohesive piece, and the significance of its message in today’s world. He reflects on his long-term collaboration and friendship with Barbra Streisand, the evolution of their work together, and offers a glimpse into their forthcoming album, which promises to be one of their most beautiful projects yet.
— Walter, “Love Will Survive” has been nominated for an Emmy. How does that make you feel?
— Well, as a producer, Emmy Awards are very rare, and not frequently a part of someone’s music career. You can easily see how Oscars are given for songs and scores in movies, but Emmys are usually for television. And television music is very hard to come by when you're making records, pop music, or whatever. So, it was a very rare opportunity that we were involved in this song for the end of this television movie The Tattooist of Auschwitz.
The group I was asked to work with, starting with Hans Zimmer—who is considered royalty in the music industry, especially in film and television scoring—was truly exceptional.
But, since I’m Barbra Streisand’s producer, they felt the song and the subject matter of the film—the Holocaust—would be appropriately offered to her. Barbra is not only a very famous singer, but as a Jewish woman, she’s very passionate about helping others, from making her film Yentl all the way to today. So, we wrote the song, and she loved it. And to everyone’s surprise, she said, “I will sing it.”
She has never sung for a television movie—she’s never done anything like that except perform live on TV. So, it was very rare, and it happened very quickly. We had to finish the song in just a week. And when it was done, everyone felt like, “Oh, wow, we have a masterpiece here.” They put it in the movie, and the film came out. And now, with the song eligible for an Emmy, we were all, like, “Let’s see what happens!”
There are hundreds, maybe thousands, of songs within a year that appear in every TV show, TV movie, reality show, and so on. So, there are only five nominations handed out.
— Why do you think this particular song got nominated?
— I think it resonates. There’s so much beauty in it, and so much emotion. Anyone who watches the film—it’s a long, six-part miniseries—when you finally get through this emotional, painful, but incredible love story, and then you hear this song at the very end, it hits you. The message is clear: love will survive. It can survive anything, even an Auschwitz death camp. The characters survived, and their lives went on, and it’s a beautiful story.
I think that, especially with everything going on in the world right now—the war in Ukraine, the conflict in Israel and Gaza—there’s so much pain and suffering. Through all of that, people still believe that love will survive, that we’re going to make it to the other side. So, this song is not just particular to one story; it’s something that covers the whole planet. And I think Hollywood likes to support good causes. Maybe there’s something good that comes out of this. The song’s message is hopeful, and that’s what we need right now.
— When you first got the offer to work on this song with the others, how did you envision it? Did the final version turn out the way you thought it would?
— They sent me a lot of little pieces of the score. Kara Talve is the composer of the music for the film, for the six-part miniseries. Her score had these beautiful, melodic pieces scattered throughout. I simply took a lot of those fragments, added a couple of my own, and created a song out of it. At first, it didn’t have an intro, verse, B-section, chorus—it wasn’t structured at all. It was just pieces of melodies.
So, I took everything, like a puzzle, and put it together into an idea that would be a song. It starts like this, goes here, modulates at the end, and finishes like this. Then, I asked my lyricist, Charlie Midnight, to write words to fit the melody I had weaved together. It was a mix of Gary’s parts, maybe some of Hans Zimmer’s, my little bits, and then Charlie’s beautiful lyrics.
Everyone involved with this project had been working on it for a long time. It’s a huge, long film, and when you’ve been working on something for years, emotionally investing your heart and soul into it, the song at the end feels like the cherry on top. It was the very last thing to be done, and I think everyone felt that it was the perfect way to close the project. The song is so beautiful that it just became the cherry on top.
— And now, Kara Talve is nominated for an Emmy for Best Score as well, right?
— Yes, she’s nominated for her work as the composer, and it’s amazing because she’s such a beautiful, wonderful composer. It’s an honor to have been involved with all these folks. I’ve never been to the Emmys, and I’ve never been nominated, so this is all new for me.
— In your interview with Judy Stakee, you mentioned that writing a song is one thing, but writing for Broadway or film is completely different, and you always question if you're good enough. It is almost surprising to hear this because songwriting has been your life’s work. Do you still feel the same way?
— Yes, I do. A songwriter must handle time-sensitive elements. For example, if you're writing for pop artists and aiming for radio singles, you have to conform to today's sound. You need to align with current production trends, styles, and sounds. You can't just do whatever you want; you have to go with the flow and fit within the prevailing sound.
When writing for television, film, or Broadway, you’re not constrained by current trends or radio formats. You’re writing for a specific show, film, or program, and it could be anything—classical, rock, country, bluegrass, jazz, etc. There are no set rules like there are for pop music.
In my career, we’ve often broken rules. For instance, when Mariah Carey and I wrote songs, we didn’t follow the current trends; we did our own thing, which set new trends instead. There’s a significant difference between writing general songs and writing for specific projects like “Love Will Survive,”, which couldn’t fit into the Top 40 radio format. It’s almost a classical piece, and it was crafted with an emotional depth in mind. We knew we wanted an orchestra and a piano, and that Barbra Streisand would sing it. This roadmap guided our work, focusing on emotional impact rather than radio trends.
— You’ve worked with Barbra Streisand for many years. How did you first meet her?
— Oh God, I’m not quite sure how many years ago that was, but it was quite some time ago. A very dear friend of mine, Jay Landers, who is also very deeply involved in my professional career, introduced us. Jay Landers is Barbra’s executive producer for her albums and music. He was also a very talented A&R person for Columbia Records and Sony Music. So, probably about 40 years ago, I’d say, is when we first started working together. Jay’s first job for me might have been Beauty and the Beast for Disney, which was Celine Dion and Peabo Bryson. Or it might have been "A Whole New World" from Aladdin. Jay and I have been very connected for many years and many projects.
When Jay saw that my career was solid and I had done what I had done in the music business, he knew I was ready to take on his artist, Barbra Streisand. So, he asked me to write a song, which I did. It’s called “Sweet Forgiveness.” Barbra was working on a new album, and Jay invited me to fly to L.A. and work with her on these songs. I had never met her before and was very nervous. We were in the studio with my engineer, and she arrived with an incredible entourage: her manager, Jay Landers, and Marvin Hamlisch, the composer of one of the songs I was working on. Also present were Alan and Marilyn Bergman, the Oscar-winning lyricists who were very dear friends of Barbra and wrote the lyrics for one or both of the other songs I was working on.
So, there was this very famous group of people, and it was my first time in the studio, nervous as can be. The session went very well; our chemistry was unexpectedly perfect. We worked very well together, and she took a liking to me. I remember making her headphones and microphone sound really good because she wasn’t happy with the initial sound. We took a little break, and I gave her some new headphones and tried another microphone. She came back and said, “Oh my God, it sounds so good.”
It was a very successful session, and we’ve stayed connected since then. We’ve worked on about five or six albums now. Barbra isn’t an artist who releases albums like most do, once a year or every two years. She might take a couple of years off to work on movies. Barbra is also very moved by various things, such as love, politics, and climate change. It depends on her feelings and what she wants to sing about. Working with her is very fun and challenging. Getting a song on her album is a songwriter’s greatest dream.
— How have your feelings about working with Barbra Streisand changed over the years? How does your first meeting and recording with her compare to your most recent experience?
— Well, you know, we’ve become very comfortable with each other. Time moves on, and we’ve all gotten older, wiser, and better at working with each other. I go into the studio now, and it feels like working with a friend. She trusts me, and I trust her. Musically, she’s very advanced. A lot of singers don’t think like she does. She has an incredible melodic sense and a very intellectual and intelligent way of wanting a certain type of lyric. The way she sings is almost like acting; she has to read her lyrics as if they were a script. When she acts in a movie, the words she reads have to be very specific and totally perfect, and it’s the same with her song lyrics. It’s wonderful to work with her—I learn every single time in the studio. She’s probably the biggest legend, artist, singer, movie star—whatever you want to call her. She’s one of the only ones in that category. It’s such an honor to be the only guy on earth who gets to be her music producer.
— What do you think makes your connection with Barbra so strong that she continues to choose you as a co-creator over the years?
— I think I’m just easy to get along with. I have a very particular code of ethics and standards. When I’m with an artist I’m producing, they’re my boss. I work for them, aiming to achieve the highest level of what they want and bring out the best in the song, the production, and the vocals. I maintain a high standard, which has evolved over the years. I hear things a bit differently and challenge myself to improve. I play piano and have developed a style that’s very intelligent, classical, and elegant. People who want to work with me are usually aware of this and seek it out. Barbra is very aware of this and wants my sound. Not everyone wants it, but we meet new people along the way. Many are focused on current trends, but I’ve moved beyond that. My time for that was many years ago. However, I’m lucky enough to have a number-one hit each year with Mariah’s Christmas song. It’s a cosmic event, like lightning striking twice. It’s a series of events and the song’s meaning to people every Christmas that makes it persist.
— Why do you think this happens year after year?
— It’s something that couldn’t be predicted and may never happen again, a unique series of events. The song’s sound and what it means to people during Christmas bring them to a special place in their feelings. Some people might get tired of it, but it’s a worldwide song. Mariah’s voice and the song’s beat make it a party anthem that brings out good feelings. When a song reaches a point where people are sick of hearing it, it’s actually a good place to be. People might get tired of it because it plays so often, but it’s a masterpiece.
There’s a song called “Sweet Caroline” by Neil Diamond that’s similar. It’s sung in football stadiums all around Europe and in bars everywhere. I compare [the] Christmas song to that; people know it, love to sing along, and it’s a party song.
I’m lucky to be one of the writers for Mariah’s song. It’s almost surreal, and people often can’t believe it when they find out. I’m very humble about it, and I love these conversations.
— Barbra Streisand is working on a new album and you’re playing a significant role in the project. Could you offer a glimpse into what’s coming?
— Yes, we are working on a new album. It’s not easy for me to give details yet, as we’re still figuring things out. But it’s a beautiful album, and when it comes out, it will be one of our most beautiful and interesting works. I’m not at liberty to share who else is involved yet, but I promise — it will be outstanding!
